Post by Michelle Kim from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

The Vegetational Fatherhood

This story had some fairy tale elements like taking place in a non-specific time and place, and of course the transformation of the daughter into a rose during her nightly prayer.

But just reading through the story, the tone seemed very scientific (delving into the possibility that humans are linked with plants) and there was no element of magic in characters outside the mother, the father rose, the daughter, and Dr. Rosenberger - The outside world seems to be completely logical and magic-free as the mother and Dr. Rosenberger are put in an insane asylum when they suggest that the daughter transformed into a rose bush.

In the story, the mother and Dr. Rosenberger are seen as crazy when in fact they are the only ones that know the truth. Even when the daughter's autopsy showed clear signs that she was part plant, this fact was cast away as a science experiment Dr. Rosenberger had conducted. Maybe the point of this story is to question whether what we know as true is actually true or if it is just society's way of maintaining control over anything beyond the norm...

1 comments:

NBM said...

There was no element of magic in other characters, making me wonder as well if it was really a fairytale, or anything that could be classified in general

Tiffany said...

I think you make a really interesting point when you say that those who know the truth are treated as insane. This seems to fit what I said about the reversal of the norm.

Post by Tiffany Dempsey from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Interpretation of The Vegetational Fatherhood

This story was interesting in that it contained certain elements of a fairy tale, however, it seemed to work in reverse. The main idea this pertains to is the element of transformation. This transformation was not a curse or anything, but rather a willing occurrence. Also, the transformation did not end and ultimately led to the death of the young girl. It seems that in other tales read, the transformation ended after the hero solved the problem. In the Juniper Tree for example, once the stepmother was killed, the little boy was no longer a bird. In the Donkeyskin stories, the transformations protected the girls from harm. In the story The Seven Ravens, after the sister completed her quest, her brothers were restored. There are many examples of instances like these. Upon reading The Vegetational Fatherhood, this reversal of the element of transformation seems to characterize the story as a different take on fairy tales. It shares a very common aspect, but reverses "the norm."

2 comments:

Brian said...

I agree. In fact, it seems as though the author uses this fact to directly criticize the characters in the tale. Logically (or in any case, in the usual flow of a fairytale), the doctor should have in some way restored the girl to speak or to full human physiology. Instead, this process was interrupted by the doc's misunderstanding of the way a fairytale is supposed to work. Silly him, right?

Michelle Kim said...

I like your idea of the reversal of the element of transformation - it's an interesting way to look at that element of the fairy tale. I agree that this tale is somehow saying that the norm is maybe not the truth

Erica D. Santiago said...

I enjoyed that you pointed out the reversal in the tale compared to what we have read. However I do wonder if it was a reversal because it was forcefully straying and playing with the original Fairy Tale elements or not.

Post by Amy-Lee Gillard from ,,The Mean Giant''

The Vegetational Fatherhood: A Cautionary Tale Warning Humanity to Respect Nature

What I find most interesting about The Vegetational Fatherhood is that the story begins with a young woman being what can only be described as raped by a rose. This seems to represent a role reversal in the relationship between humanity and nature. Human's have long exploited (or raped) nature, greedily using up its resources without care or concern for how nature will be affected. In The Vegetational Fatherhood the rose uses the young woman's womb to link humanity and nature together by creating a hybrid being. This exploitation of the young woman to serve the will of nature is no different that humanity's exploitation of nature to serve its one purposes. It is simply the norm we are used to being turned on its head.

The hybrid being, a beautiful young girl, symbolizes the way in which nature is exploited by humanity. Nature usually regarded as mysterious, graceful, and, most importantly, feminine. Humanity and cultural advancement are usually regarded as powerful, factual, and, most importantly, masculine. The young girl is mute, unable to assert a voice in order to protect herself just as is nature. Dr. Rosenberger is a scientist who intends to bend his young bride to his will. He assumes she is pious but instead of respecting who she is he plans to "break her of this habit." Dr. Rosenberger clearly represents humanity and its demands while his young wife represents the innocence and vulnerability of nature.

Because Dr. Rosenberger is careless and disrespectful of his young wife's wishes he ultimately destroys her. He does so inadvertently, yet this could have been prevented had he respected her. His wife's death results in the destruction of Dr. Rosenberger's own life as well. This can be seen to comment on humanity's disrespect for nature. If humanity continues to drain the world of it natural resources and disrespect nature's right to flourish, nature will eventually be destroyed. And because humanity cannot exist without the support of nature, if humanity destroys nature it is effectively destroying itself.

Posted by AmyLee120

ydiaohl@me.com said...

I like the idea that you bring up that humanity will destroy itself by disrespecting and destroying nature. It is also interesting that the vegetal father was in the form of a rose, which looks beautiful, but it also has thorns which can prick and wound those who try to harm it.

Caitlin Humphreys said...

I really like your point about the common theme of humans exploiting nature seemingly being reversed in this tale.

Post by Jasmine Rasberry from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Veggie Tale

I didn't really interpret this tale as a fairy tale. It does have the transformation but that didn't seem like enough. I didn't really feel
like it was a Kunstmärchen either. There is no desire to travel and no passionate desire to know or get something beyond one's reach. The mother does want to know the truth about the baby but in a way she already knows or at least suspects. I feel that either way she is not that passionate about finding the truth. The tale reminds me the most of mythology. It recycles the idea of the innocent human being raped by the miraculous being. When I first began reading the story I thought of the mythological stories of Zeus and his affairs with earthly women, most specifically Zeus/Leda. Usually rape tales end contain a supernatural child, a freak child, a demigod or tragic ending. Usually the tales point to a dominate patriarchy or powerful empire and lust or rape as love. The "rape" in the beginning demonstrates plant's dominance over man and beast but also the supernatural or unexplainable over man and reason. The mom doesn't want to except what happened because it is not reasonable and she won't ell anyone either. The "foolhardy theoreticians" and "pedants" are unable to grasp the supernatural at the end of the tale. They hypothesize that the mom and husband are hysterical. They are "sinners" because they try to separate the "real" and divine/spiritual through reason and scientific practice. The rape also seems like a love scene because they seem to connect in the eyes and they are compelled by a yearning and a magical force. The story also resembles the Christ story to me because the "rape" seems parallel to the impregnation of the virgin, the daughter has some type of spiritual connection to her father ( the father is there but not there "vegetational fatherhood") and knows more than the mother and the daughter dies because of those who don't believe and those who witness the event are considered crazy. I don't know. What do you guys make of the first page and the ending? There is a large emphasis of the supernatural, spiritual, consciousness, the limits of scholars, and what we choose to believe. I guess that makes it a Kunstmärchen.

2 comments:

Tim said...

I like how you tied elements of mythology into the story, as well as linking it to the birth of Christ. My question about Zeus's children...i may be mistaken but doesn't bad things usually happen to the child or woman the god is sleeping with. For example, one of his children is born from his head. Also, i remember one story where the woman he was sleeping with wanted to see him in his true form, and died upon seeing it? Also if it is a myth, what is it trying to explain the existence of?

Allison said...

I like how you connected the story with a number of outside ideas (mythology and religion). I also saw a connection between the virgin girl who becomes impregnated by the rose and the virgin Mary. I did not view the dream/sex scene as a rape though. I read it more as them making love...a connection between nature and man. The dream was just put in place so the pregnancy was more believable because all things are possible in dreams.

Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''

The Vegetational Fatherhood: Fairy Tale vs. Kunstmärchen

The Vegetational Fatherhood by Mynona has a number of elements that are characteristic of fairy tales, and also a number that are characteristic of Kunstmärchen. I found that the story was similar to traditional fairy tales because of the element of transformation. “The rose transformed itself into a handsome young man…” and the daughter transforms into a rose every night during prayer time. The Vegetational Fatherhood is also like a fairy tale in that it has an element of religion. For example, at one point on page 583 Mynona writes that creatures who pick flowers and plants are sinning. Also, the mother and daughter pray together every night. I think that the fact that the daughter transforms into her rose-self during prayer time emphasizes the piety of nature.

The Vegetational Fatherhood contains a number of Kunstmärchen characteristics, as well. First of all, the roses are often personified, “This rose fixed its magic eyes…” Also there is definitely a sexual (inappropriate for children) aspect, “The rose transformed himself into a handsome young man, who embraced and enjoyed the woman…she utterly abandoned herself to him. ..Her lap was covered with rose petals, her clothes in disarray.” As discussed in class, Kunstmärchen often have a sense of irony. In the story, the mother chooses Dr. Floris Rosenberger to be his daughter’s husband. The name suggests flowers and roses, which may have been why her mother chose and trusted him for her daughter. In the end though, Dr. Rosenberger was the cause of the rose-daughter’s death. Lastly, The Vegetational Fatherhood is like a Kunstmärchen because of its tragic ending: not only does the rose-daughter get thrown off a balcony by her new husband and die, but her (somewhat) innocent husband and mother get thrown into an insane asylum.

Posted by Allison

Alex! said...

I agree with your points supporting how the story is both like a traditional fairy tale and a kuntsmarchen. Along with the transformation and religious aspects, the tale also introduces an element of enchantment and magic.

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Prompt 10: The Vegetational Fatherhood

While reading The Vegetational Fatherhood, I thought the whole story was ridiculous. Now, I am able to really play with the ideas presented and can kind of see where the author is coming from. In the introduction, it is clearly stated that plants have a direct effect on humans and animals. The first section supports this claim by telling the story about a young woman who is essentially raped by a rose. The author uses language that conveys the greatness of the impact the rose has on the girl. For example, the woman tries to find the rose "involuntarily" after waking up with a weird feeling. This shows how the woman was not planning for this to happen and seems almost like a puppet in the plant's life. The daughter that is born due to this event is described as "wondrous." She doesn't talk, she is pretty, and is quite an artist...I'm thinking a typical fairy tale Beauty. Later, however, we find out that the seemingly perfect child transforms into a rosebush when praying. The mom and daughter keep this a secret and seem to be ashamed of her appearance as a shrub. When the fiance finds the rosebush and not his Beauty, he carelessly throws it to the maid and asks her to put it on display as something nice to look at during breakfast. This represents how the average human treats flowers. We pick them and never consider that they might have feelings, or a life. Personally, I understand where Mynona get this idea, but I do not think that this has to change. People enjoy looking at flowers and if we didn't pick them, they'd be overwhelming in mass! Finally, in the end of the story, the mother and fiance ("murderer") are treated as crazy people for seeing a rosebush in what others thought was obviously a human. I think this presents the typical reaction recieved when someone tries to convince another that plants have feelings just like us. I have to say, although I enjoyed reading the story through a few times, I can understand the argument, but I can't imagine actually treating plants like I treat my best friends. Overall, the author tries to convince the audience that plants and animals are very connected, my question then is why is there no apparent punishment for picking flowers?

Posted by Anna

Mallory said...

I think your interpretation of the tale is interesting- a commentary about how humans treat plants. While I can't quite grasp the meaning of this strange story, I see the author trying to convey something a little broader. Maybe Mynona was getting at the ultimate power of nature- the bride was overcome by roses each night and this transformation ulitmately led to her death....but again, I think the meaning of this tale is hard to grasp.

April 8, 2009 8:09 PM

Jasmine said...

I find your comments about the woman being the object of the gaze to be interesting. I like how you related the girl and flowers as things for display. This is an idea that was being toyed with in one of my other film classes. Here is a quote from the reading...

"They (women) are usually decorations without real reasons of being. If the men are finely fired porcelain vases, then the women are casually picked wild flowers. They are put in the vase only to complement the vessel, which remains spectacular even if the flowers are discarded." (The Mysterious Gayness in Chang Cheh's Unhappy World, Michael Lam, pg 178).

Like what you said, other tales we have read and the quote tries to say women like flowers are put on display as decorations or symbols of greater wealth, power or masculinity. Like you said. We pick them and never consider that they might have feelings, or a life. We content with the silence of the female and nature. Maybe like the active female or (wicked stepmother in the Gubar essay) the power of nature is something that we find threatening. Nature is destroyed when it decides it doesn't want to be objectified any longer. I think that my associating this story with the Gubar essay is a stretch but I agree that flowers and women share the same small space in the world of men.

Assignment 10 - 7. April 2009

For this week, read the tale The Vegetational Fatherhood and try to interpret this tale.

You could talk about the idea behind the story, the characters, the fact that it does/does not fit into the catagory ,,Kunstmärchen", the message it wants to convey/fails to, or about anything other thing that catches your attention...there are no specific expectations...you can work with this tale any way you want.

Post by Michelle Kim from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Wondrous Oriental Tale

A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint definitely fits into the Fairy Tale genre because of its amorphous time and place, "The Orient... the wilderness of this region" (Wackenroder), "This lasted for many years, day and night" (Wackenroder). There is also the typical fairy tale characteristic of a conflict being resolved. Though this tale is definitely does not end like a Disney version of "happily ever after," there is still the element of a happy ending as the naked saint is freed from his affliction/torture.

When reading this fairy tale, the music builds and builds, "ethereal music flowed... sweet horns and countless magical instruments" until finally a song "arose from the undulating music" (Wackenroder). It is almost as if the poem/song is the climax of the saint's musical experience, and in this sense, the relationship between music and poetic language is that the music makes the poetic language exponentially more powerful and effective.

1 comments:

NBM said...

I agree with the characteristics of a fairy tale that you found, and really like the way that you described the music as part of the story. I do believe the music made the language more powerful.

Post by Caitlin Humphreys from ,,The Mean Giant''

The Naked Saint and Music

Wackenroder frames his tale at the beginning much like a fairy tale in that the setting involves an indeterminate time and place. He also introduces a sort of magic into the story by describing the naked saints as “the wondrous recipients of a higher genius, who have taken on human form after having drifted from the realm of the firmament and consequently do not know how to act like human beings” (296). However, much like other fairy tales, Wackenroder does not try to explain this phenomenon any further to the reader. The naked saint is also subject to some sort of a curse because “the constant roar of the wheel of time did not allow him to rest and do anything on earth – to act, to effect, to be productive” (298). Much like curses in other fairy tales, the naked saint’s spell was broken through the fulfillment of a longing, which in his case was to hear music. Then after the spell is broken, in the tradition of fairy tales, the naked saint undergoes a transformation through which he becomes a spirit “woven from a soft vapor” (299).

I think that both music and poetic language can be very powerful but in different ways because they appeal to different senses. Music appeals to our sense of hearing in a way that I do not think poetic language can, even if it is read aloud. The fact that music can affect us even without words makes it very powerful in a way different from poetic language. Poetic language can also be very powerful and can display musical qualities in the meter, diction, and so on, yet it can never take the place of music. I think Wackenroder’s attempt to show the transformative power of music in this tale falls short of his intentions. I am not sure that poetic language could ever be successful in demonstrating the power Wackenroder believes music holds. The difference between hearing beautiful music and reading beautiful poetic language is best demonstrated by Wackenroder’s description of the music in the story. He writes, “Sweet horns and countless magical instruments enticed a whirling world of tones to ring forth, and a song arose from the undulating music” (298). This sentence provides an excellent example of beautiful prose and sets the scene nicely, however it cannot create the actual music for the reader and thus remains less powerful than to the music itself. The transformative power of the music for the monk is quite obvious from Wackenroder’s description but with only words to describe it the music cannot have the same effect on the reader as it does for the monk.

Posted by Caitlin Humphreys

Post by Mallory Hely from ,,The Curse''

Assignment 9

1) Multiple elements of Wackenroder's tale qualify it as a fairy tale. For example, the setting is ambiguous with regard to time and location. The wheel also seems to be a curse and magic is also present when it suddenly disappears. Further characteristics of this story fall under the literary fairy tale genre. There is an uncertainty between madness and reality with the saint's supposed hearing of the wheel. With an unspecified oriental setting, the element of the exotic is also present, which was a characteristic of German Romanticism. Furthermore, the individual "genius"/misunderstood character is rewarded in the end with his wheel disappearing.

2) The relationship between text and music is interesting in this tale. While I believe it is difficult to channel the power that music has through writing, elements of this story were reminiscent of music. For example, Wackenroder uses repetition several times. "Like a waterfall with thousands and thousands of rushing streams that tumbled from heaven and poured itself eternally, eternally without a momen'ts pause, without a second's pause." (297) With this description, the reader can imagine the sound of the wheel turning over and over in the saint's ears. Although it does not accomplish a recreation of the actual sound, I believe that text can communicate some of the characteristics of music.

Posted by Mallory

Post by Keith Myers from ,,The Curse"

Keith's response

The naked saint does fit into the characteristics of the fairytale genre.
First off, there is a naked saint who is in charge of turning "the
powerful rushing wheel of time" (298). This saint is seems
slightly/drastically crazy throughout the story and is "trapped in the
whirlpool of his wild confusion (297). He is given a magical task to
always turn the wheel and he refuses to follow the rules as seems to be a
characteristic of the fairytale genre. The Kunstmarchen looks for a more
literary and artistic form of the fairytale genre. Α Wondrous
Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint has these requirements.

Poetic language and music are intertwined in A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a
Naked Saint. The Saint is trapped in a never task which brings him
nothing but turmoil and suffering. The music of the lovers comes into his
life and he transforms into a celestial being. This transformation helps
the lovers escape the wheel of time and become free.

1 comments:

Mallory said...

I agree that language and music are intertwined in this tale. Other than the music present in the narrative, I also found the actual style of language used by Wackenroder to be reminiscent of music.

Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Langauge vs. Music

Within A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint I would argue that language, the poem is merely used to point out the power of music. It is obvious that Wackenroder would say that music is stronger than language because the suffering naked saint is distracted and upset by his talkative visitors, but he is cured and set free by the song of the lovers. Even though the naked saint was exposed to language on a daily basis, it was the use of language within the music that set his soul free.

I, on the other hand, think that poetic language has just as much power as music does. The message of poetry is very clear, and poems, like music, do have their own rhythms. The rhythm in poetry, however is dependent on the language within the poem, so the message is what really gets heard. Often times in music, words are written to fit a pre-written song. Although the music might sound beautiful, what is the value of the music when the language, the message communicated through the song is weak?

2 comments:

Alex! said...

I like how to equate poetry with music in that they both have a certain rhythm that can be portrayed the the reader/listener. I agree with your argument.

NBM said...

I didn't even think much about the fact that he couldn't stand the words he was exposed to, but that the music is what set him free. What an interesting aspect!

Post by Tim Collazi from ,,The Cruel Witch''

A Wondorous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint

This tale has a lot in common with the fairy tale genre. The first thing that struck my attention is we are instantly transported in the beginning to a world where fantastic beings exist. Wackenroder says "There are also strange beings that are frequently found in the wilderness of this regions." Fairy tales often have some type of creature/being in them, and it is not considered impossible but simply are part of the world in which they live. There is also mention of transfiguration (especially important for later) mentioned in the beginning. It states "naked saints who have taken human form after having drifted from the realm of the firmament and consequently do not know how to act like human beings." Another element of the fairy tale is the timeless/placesless aspect of it. It starts by saying "at one time...," so the reader is really given no idea where or when this story is taking place. There are magical elements to the story as well, like the saint being under some sort of magical spell that causes him to constantly see and be capitavted by the wheel.
The music in this story serves a very important purpose. It is a cataylst that allows for the naked saint to be freed, and undergo a transfiguration into a celestial entity (transfigurations often happen in fairy tales). I feel that the "song" is more important for its poetic structure and lyrics, rather than the tune. This creates an interesting tension in the story. The author only gives the reader information regarding the lyrics of the song, BUT "as soon as the naked saint heard the first notes of the music, the rushing wheel of time disappeared." So, for Wackenroder, who probably had sometype of music notes in mind when writing this, the actual music is more important. The reader, however, cannot be in the author's head and therefore are forced to accept that the lyrics are what make the song so appealing and allow the saint to be freed from the spell.

Posted by Tim

1 comments:

Allison said...

Tim, you make a good point on how, even though music is probably more important to Wackenroder than language, there is no way of communicating the power of music that Wackenroder believed in merely through the poetry/song in the story.

Post by Alex Howard from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Tuesday, March 31, 2009

The Naked Saint

Wackenroder's literary tale, "A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint," fits into the fairy tale genre while also possessing many elements of the Romantic period. The story opens with a paragraph on the "marvelous things" of the Orient, which introduce the reader to a sense of wonder and enchantment, a common theme of the traditional folktale. We are introduced to a wilderness, or perhaps enchanted forest, where "supernatural creatures" and "strange beings" are found. Another fairy tale aspect of the "Naked Saint" is its concept of time; the tale never explains the time period in which we find the naked saint and his eternally spinning wheel. The tale also describes an "ethereal music" that flowed from two lovers' skiff. The music, much like kissing an ugly toad or a selfless act of kindness, breaks the naked saint's spell of madness, his rushing wheel of time disappears and a transformation occurs. The element of music serves not only as a different spin on the fairy tale's traditional spell-breaking-trope, but also as a medium of poetic language. The power of music evokes a sense of wonder and amazement in this tale. It is translated by the author into a poetic language that is accessibly to the reader who cannot hear the music for him/herself. The only part of the music that we can personally comprehend is the written lyrics; it is the job of the author to create an image of the power of the sound, the primary medium of music. In describing the music's effects as causing a "bright ethereal figure" to soar high into the air, "carried by the soft crescendo of the horns and the song." Through Wackenroder's exquisite use of poetic language, the reader can sense the intimate relationship between language, poetry and the evocative power of music.

1 comments:

Allison said...

I like your arguments about the story as being a literary tale, while also possessing fairy tale elements. I especially liked your discussion of time and how it fits into the fairy tale genre. I overlooked that element!

Assignment 9 - 31. March 2009

Read Wackenroder's A Wondrous Oriental Tale of a Naked Saint and do the following:

1. Using elements from this tale, explain how it fits into the Fairy Tale/Kunstmärchen genre.

2. Trace the relationship of music and poetic language. Is the power evoked by music also accessible to language or does language merely point out to music and/or what music does.

Deadline for posts: 10.00 a.m. on Wednesday

Deadline for comments on a minimum of two posts: Midnight on Wednesday

Responses to Question 2: Tatar offers two readings of the heroine's character: either as a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness or as a disobedient female. Using a version other than the Perrault, consider how the heroine gets presented. Use quotes to support your reading.

Post by Mallory Hely from ,,The Curse''

Assignment 8 Cont.

In the Grimm's The Robber Bridegroom, the heroine is presented in an interesting light. First, once she enters the murderers' home, it is the older woman and not her who comes up with the plan to hide behind the barrel. The old woman also saves her when she is about to be discovered. Furthermore, she could not even come up with an interesting story to tell at her own wedding at first questioning. "The bride remained still and did not utter a word." (144) Upon further prodding from her new husband, she tells the tale of her adventure to the house in the woods. The guests come to her rescue and all of the murderers are executed. With this conclusion of her wedding, it can only be assumed that she now can live happily ever after as a pleasant and dutiful wife.

Posted by Mallory

Anna said...

I agree. It's interesting how the old woman is given credit for being clever and wise, but the "heroine" is actually portrayed more as dumb. She tells the story, but that wasn't really her idea...but I can't say that I think this version is all about female disobedience.

Post by Erin Martin from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Treatment of the Heroine

Bluebeard is not the first fairy tale in which we've seen a heroine who is cunning and active in her own right (see: some versions of Little Red Riding Hood and Hansel and Gretel) However, this is the first that I can recall where the heroine is introduced outright as being intelligent, in addition to being beautiful. She is everything that Snow White is not; rather than being the silent, still girl in a glass display case, she has agency and makes decisions--and pays dearly for it.

"He no longer had power over her, and had to do her bidding," write the Brothers Grimm in Fitcher's Bird, exemplifying the heroine's intelligence as her means of escaping trouble on her own.

"She was terrified that she might wake one of them up, but God guided her footsteps," they write in the Robber Bridegroom, attributing even divine protection on their heroine, a far cry from shaming her for disobedience.

I don't think that this story is meant to demonize curiosity in women, as the Perrault moral (in rhyme, no less, so it's easy to remember/needlepoint onto a pillow!) dictates. If this were really a story whose moral seeks to discourage women from disobeying their husbands, the heroine would have died. End of story. Bluebeard is the one who pays in the end, stabbed to death by the heroine's brothers and relatives, his end brought about by the very woman who ignored the arbitrary demands he would not even be around to enforce. Her curiosity could even be considered a good thing--she found the chamber and set about a series of events that brought a serial killer to justice! Great justification for snooping! The Perrault version of Bluebeard is the only story in the cluster than even takes this stance--all the rest praise the heroine's cunning and condemn Bluebeard's abhorrent deeds. Fitcher's Bird, the Robber Bridegroom, and Mr. Fox all present a resolution contigent on the heroine's cunning ploy to trap the villain, rather than punish her for sticking her nose where she ought not.

Posted by Erin

Post by Briana Weiser from ,,The Mean Giant"

Clever Bride in "The Robber Bridegroom"

In the "Robber Bridegroom," the female protagonist is portrayed in an intelligent, clever manner. She shows foresight in filling "both her pockets with peas and lentils to mark the way" to the bridegroom's house - thereby listening to the feelings that make her "dreadfully frightened" when she "was supposed to leave." The girl also places her trust rightly in the matronly old woman, who saves her when she tells the robbers to " 'come and eat,'" efficiently distracting them from trying to find the finger that flew into the girl's lap. Even though going through the gruesome ordeal of witnessing a murder, she also does not faint or scream when hiding behind the barrel, and is only said to be "trembling and shaking." The girl then escapes with the old woman and immediately tells "her father about everything that had happened." She has the werewithal to keep the chopped off finger and ring to present as evidence later during the wedding celebration. The girl is never described as overtly curious and she does not disobey anyone's orders. Therefore, I would say that she is depicted as possessing a high level of intelligence and self-preservation.

Posted by Briana Weiser

Caitlin Humphreys said...

I completely agree with you that the girl in this tale seems to be a model of cleverness and self-preservation. The cleverness shown by marking the way home with peas and lentils and then her plot to reveal the bridegroom as a robber by telling the story like it was a dream show great cleverness and self-preservation instincts.

AmyLee120 said...

You bring up some very good points; however, I do have a problem with one of them. I disagree that the female protagonist's trust in the old woman was clever or intelligent. In the end it obviously worked out for the best however she had no reason to trust the old woman at first. She very easily could have been one of the robbers trying to trick her. I girl exemplifying self-preservation would more likely be suspicious of such an eerie old woman in such an ominous setting. This heroine just turned out to be lucky.

Post by Brian Collura from ,,The Mean Giant''

The contextually disobedient wife. Don't hit me.

"Rich is the man whose wife is dead and horse alive"

This is an anonymous proverb from Agricultural France, back in the day not long before Bluebeard would begin to be first told. While today, the tale speaks volumes about the man's treachery and blatant criminal record, the society from which this tale comes is one where family and marriage were only just worth the procreation that they enabled. According to sociologist Edward Shorter, in France a husband would likely be publicly humiliated for not having control of his wife by riding an ass backward through town. The death of a child was so common that it hardly caused sorrow, and in fact infanticide or [close to it] the abandonment or giving away of children was not uncommon. Thus, it is unlikely that emotional attachments existed to any great degree like they do today. (Sociology 101 text, by Rodney Stark)

Put in this [breifly described] setting, the crime of Bluebeard's murders and the crime of his wife's disobedience can be met at a much more level plane. Perroult's morals back this as well: while "Curiosity... can bring with it serious regrets," and "women succumb," "You will understand that this tale is one that took place many years ago. No longer are husbands so terrible".

Another proverb from the same time and place to end on -
"The two sweetest days of a fellow in life,
Are the marriage and burial of his wife."

Posted by Brian

Post by Alex Howard from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Bluebeard's Heroine

In the Brothers Grimm version of Bluebeard, "Fitcher's Bird," the first women the reader encounter's is not presented with any hint of personality or character. When she goes to the door and "was about to hand him a piece of bread, he just touched her and she jumped into his basket." The same description is given of the second daughter and both of them meet the same fate. The third daughter, however, is a much more dynamic character. She is even described as "clever and cunning." And she even "put the egg in a safe place." She definitely celebrates the self-preservation and cunning aspects of femininity. She succeeds is putting her sisters back together, quite literally, and bringing them back to life. She also forges a plan to get them home safely. After the third daughter has set the precedent for being cunning and clever, the first and second daughters follow suit. They trick the sorcerer while he is on his way to her house by crying from the basket as if they are the third daughter. When they are all together in the end, they orchestrate for their brothers and relatives to "set fire to [the house] so that the sorcerer and his crew burned to death." In the end, feminine cunning wins and curiosity indirectly kills the sorcerer instead of the cat.

Posted by Alex!

Responses to Question 1: Compare the elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard that you read for today. Please name the elements you are comparing and discuss how they function in the story. Do they help move the plot along? Elaborate the story? Startle the audience? etc.

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Prompt 8 - Question 1: Horror

I noticed that the elements of horror in most of these versions of Bluebeard were somewhat similar and helped the story be more exciting. Blood and gore, the unexpected, suspense, and realism are the aspects that stood out for me. First, the fact that this sort of horrific chain of events could potentially happen to anyone is scary. Humans do certain tings all the time because of curiosity and temptation. Another common aspect of the stories involves either someone's finger being chopped off, or walking into a room full of blood and dead women. This just adds to the intensity of how bad the consequences of your actions can be and adds detail to the story. Also, nobody expects the blood to stay on the egg or key. When a ring doesn't come off right away, today, people would use lotion to remove it, so the sword was quite a surprise. The unexpected is horrific and seems to be used to keep the attention of the audience. Finally, the element of suspense is also used to keep the audience reading. This is seen when the wife is buying minutes of time so that she can live, but the audience is at the edge of theire seats because Bluebeard could kill her at any point in time. Another example of suspense is when the girls iding in "The Robber Bridegroom" and "Mr. Fox" could be discovered and murdered at any time. In gereal, these four main elements of horror inhance these versions of Bluebeard in similar ways.

Posted by Anna

Post by Erin Martin from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Elements of Horror

In the stories of Bluebeard, the horrific secret hidden behind the door in each respective telling of the tale seems to address the question, "What is absolutely the most nauseating, terrifying thing the disobedient wife could find behind the door to the forbidden room?" That Bluebeard is a serial killer seems to be of less consequence than the young wife's indiscretion--he did specifically tell her not to open the door, didn't he? The horror in this story is not standalone. Bluebeard is not the terrifying tale of a mad murderer--it centers on the girl's bizarre experience in relation to Bluebeard, and how the horrors were brought on by her curiosity, defiance, agency, etc.

While the horror trope is basically the same in all the stories (horrific death of innocent girl witnessed by the heroine), where the stories differ is in the attitude the narratorial voice has toward what the girl sees. The Perrault version treats the chamber as something terrifying in and of itself. In the Grimm version (Fitcher's Bird), the bloody chamber and the murders of the heroine's sisters serve as more of a challenge for the third sister to overcome. And in the Jacobs version, the narrator is somewhat cavalier about the girl's macarbe discovery, as though she had just stumbled upon Mr. Fox's unsettling collection of Scientology literature rather than the mangled corpses of his victims.

We've talked a lot in this course about the tones of these stories as interpreted by at 21st century audience likely indoctrinated from the crib with the Disneyfied versions of fairy tales. The intermingling of horror and fantasy in the literary versions of fairy tales is a little bit jarring at first, and in this series of stories, we are seeing it from a different perspective: that horror in literature has a place other than blood and guts for the sake of blood and guts.

Posted by Erin

Post by Emily Schweickhardt from ,,The Nasty Stepmother"

the horror

An element of horror is the concept of loss of female virginity. The bloody key is a motif that runs through the different versions of this concept. Linked with loss of female virginity is marital disobedience-- the fear of the husband [or robber] that the woman is going to somehow betray him. that is why Bluebeard-- or the robbers- or the similar characters-- do not seem to trust their wives, and always manage to "catch" her in her lies. Further linked with loss of female virginity is the notion of any kind of "transgressive desire" in respects to the female character. She is supposed to stay in line, and if she strays, then she is always caught and "taught her lesson."

Another element of horror is the sheer psychotic rage on Bluebeard's character. He seems utterly emotionless, or, as Tatar says, "abject" to his acts of murder. He is absolutely heartless. It makes him unhuman.

Overall, all the Bluebeard tales taint marriage with its threat of murder. The Bluebeard tales make it out to seem like you can never get too comfortable with your husband or wife, because you can never trust someone when it comes right down to it. Bluebeard, as Tatar puts it, "confirms a child's worst fears about sex." With marriage or sex comes betrayal and murder, in the Bluebeard tales, and is rendered in elements in the tales such as the characters' anxieties. In "Bluebeard's Ghost" Sly's nephew commits the ultimate betrayal, even though he is not married to Bluebeard's widow, he is the potential suitor, so the theme of elements of horror applies to him. The concept of him dressing-up as a deceased man-- Bluebeard-- and tricking people based on that-- proves how sick and twisted his mind is, to an extent that is more than creepy to the reader. The nightmares and anxiety that Bluebeard's widow has because of the whole situation augments the horror of the "trickery."

Posted by schweiek

Post by Amy-Lee Gillard from ,,The Mean Giant''

Question 1: Horror in Bluebeard

In my opinion the most horrific aspect of any of the Bluebeard stories was the first moral at the end of Perrault's version. Somehow this moral manages to turn a fairy tale about a male serial killer into a tool to place social constraints upon women. The Perrault and Grimm versions teach that a women should always obey her husband or else she will receive severe punishment. These stories offer the ultimate form of Victim Blaming. Because the wife disobeyed her husband and entered the forbidden room, she risks her life. The husband's crazed and murderous tendencies is excused while the wife's curiosity is chastised. The inhuman nature of the Bluebeard character is also shocking. The Grimms' versions and then Jacobs version actually goes so far as to describe the brutal murders of women.

Perhaps the best message that a woman could take from these stories is that she should marry for love. All of these stories involved women marring the Blulebeard character due to an arranged marriage; despite a feeling of hesitation. If you take time to get to know your future husband, you probably stand a better chance of avoiding a brutal death at his hands later on.

Posted by AmyLee120

Post by Caitlin Humphreys from ,,The Mean Giant''

Horror in Bluebeard Tales

I think that in most of the Bluebeard stories horror functions as a way to reinforce the image of the husband as evil. In Perrault’s “Bluebeard” and the Grimm’s “Fitcher’s Bird,” the room that the wife is forbidden to enter is described in a manner seemingly designed to shock the reader. Perrault describes the room as covered in blood with dead women hanging on the walls, while the Brothers Grimm story depicts a basin filled with chopped up people. Both stories seem to want to horrify the reader and thus make him reflect on the evil nature of a man who would commit such acts. Similarly the Brothers Grimm story “The Robber Bridegroom” and Jacobs’ “Mr. Fox” describe the gruesome acts of a husband-to-be who cuts up girls, including cutting off their fingers to obtain the ring on it. The horror in these two stories seems essential to the plot in order to validate the woman’s refusal to marry the man in question. After telling the story of atrocities she sees her future husband commit, which she frames as a dream in both tales, she is no longer obligated to marry him and her family takes care the bridegroom for her.

One story that stands out as different from the others in its use of horror is “Bluebeard’s Ghost” by Thackeray. Thackeray seems to use horror as the device to prompt Bluebeard’s widow into making a decision between Mr. Sly and Captain Blackbeard. The horror manifests itself in the visits made by Bluebeard’s “ghost” to his widow during the night. When the widow finds out the real source of these supposedly supernatural visits, she learns the true nature of Mr. Sly and is able to pick Captain Blackbeard without any qualms. In “Bluebeard’s Ghost” the horror provides almost the only action in the story and also propels the most important conflict in the story to its resolution in the widow’s picking of Blackbeard.

Posted by Caitlin Humphreys

AmyLee120 said...

It is very interesting that the story must frame Bluebeard is such a horrific light in order for it to be acceptable to the reader that the woman refuses to marry him. It is also interesting that despite the fact that the fairy tale clearly implies that Bluebeard went too far in his actions, the tale still implies that the dead women found were dead as a punishment for being to curious. Even though the story shows that the crazed Bluebeard took their punishment too seriously, it also shows that the women still deserved to be punished for disobeying him.

Post by Alex Howard from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Elements of Horror

The elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard set this story apart from other stories that we have previously read. In Charles Perrault's "Bluebeard," the most startling element of horror, albeit the first, is when Bluebeard's wife disobeys her husband and opens the forbidden door: "... she began to realize that the floor was covered with clotted blood and that the blood reflected the bodies of several dead women hung up on the walls (these were all the women Bluebeard had married and then murdered one after another)." The narrator even says that "she thought she would die of fright." This element of horror, the vivid description of the blood-stained room, serves to startle the reader and add an element of surprise to the story. Like many fairy tales, the story presents a prohibition that someone will undoubtedly cross. But this blood-stained setting leads the reader to a different frame of mind that most other fairy tales. In the Brothers Grimm's version, "Fitcher's Bird," the narrator provides an even more indepth description of the muderous abode: "... a large bloody basin filled with dead people who had been chopped to pieces. Next to the basin was a block of wood with a gleaming ax on it." In presenting the murder weapon itself, the image is more vivid and believable. The idea of seeing bodies chopped to pieces is more unappetizing than an image of whole bodies hanging from a wall. In this story, as well, the description of the blood-spattered room adds an element of horror that serves to shock the reader.

Posted by Alex!

Allison said...

I agree with you. The nasty pictures painted in a number of versions of Bluebeard set them a part from the other fairy tales we have examined this semester, in that they have that additional, disgusting element of horror, which make them appear more as a horror story than a fairy tale.

Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Question 1 Response: Elements of Horror

The most obvious and common element of horror found within the Bluebeard stories that we were assigned to read for class is that of the murder of young, beautiful, rich women-- women with any sort of power over men during those times. One does see variations between each version, though. For example, in the Grimm’s The Robber Bridegroom, the bridegroom or Bluebeard character finds women, murders them, and then eats them. The element of cannibalism is also included in this version, which changes one’s perception of the Bluebeard character. In other versions, such as the Grimm’s Fitcher’s Bird, Perrault’s Bluebeard, and Joseph Jacobs’s Mr. Fox, for example the wife or fiancé is murdered as a result of her own curiosity and disobedience. In The Robber Bridegroom, on the other hand, the female fiancé is completely innocent and would have been killed (although she wasn’t in the end) solely as a result of her bridegroom’s human blood lust. This changes the traditional Bluebeard story in that it eliminates any blame that might be directed onto the main female character within the story, and directs all on the cannibalistic men.

Another element within the various versions, that can be interpreted as horror by many women today—and clearly back then as well, since it is such a reoccurring theme-- is the idea of marrying a man that you do not love, or wish to marry. One sees this in the Grimm’s The Robber Bridegroom and Fitcher’s Bird, and also initially in Perrault’s Bluebeard. The only two that do not contain such a theme are Jacob’s Mr. Fox (1890) and Atwood’s Bluebeard’s Egg (1983). The most obvious reason why this theme may not be present in these two versions, especially in Atwood’s version, is the time during which it was written. Atwood’s version was written much later on, when marrying a man you do not wish to marry is not nearly as common as it was years ago (rising in social status and arranged marriages). This element of horror does change the perception of the main female character in the Bluebeard stories, in that when the female does not want to marry the Bluebeard character, it gives her, her intuition, her opinion, etc more credit.

Posted by Allison

Assignment 8 - 24. March 2009

For this week, please complete two separate posts.

Question 1: Compare the elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard that you read for today. Please name the elements you are comparing and discuss how they function in the story. Do they help move the plot along? Elaborate the story? Startle the audience? etc.

Question 2: Tatar offers two readings of the heroine's character: either as a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness or as a disobedient female. Using a version other than the Perrault, consider how the heroine gets presented. Use quotes to support your reading.


DEADLINE for Posts: Midnight on Tuesday

DEADLINE for Comments on atleast two other posts: Midnight on Wednesday

Again, please post two separate entries!

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Prompt 7: DEFA films

I think the DEFA production of "The Devil's Three Golden Hairs" is targeted towards a younger audience. The 1977 film tried to make the story very funny and turned it from a fairy tale into a slapstick show. For example, there are unnecessary bursts of laughter, especially in the robber scene, and some ridiculous facial expressions that would probably make young adults laugh. Also, the movie is made up of almost all male characters, so that suggests that it could be aimed towards boys, who might be able to relate to it more. Both DEFA films we have seen have been comedic, leaning more on the cheesy side. In the DEFA version of Snow White, the magical aspect of the fairy tale was eliminated, and technology and hard work were themes that were used instead. Similarly, this DEFA film takes the magic away and adds technology (noticable, especially in the castle) and focuses on human labor. As for using the film as the medium instead of paper, it definitely allows for exaggeration and expansion of slightly funny details. Also, watching a movie is usually what people do for enjoyment, so assuming that people looking for entertainment will view this film, it is more likely that they will enjoy all of the slapstick aspects.

1 comments:

AmyLee120 said...

I like that you brought up the fact that this film, like so many others, caters primarily to a male audience. I also like that you mentioned that DEFA films often replace the magical with the technological. It is a marker for the progression of the times.

Post by Nikki Moss from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Devil with the three golden hairs

I would say that this audience might be lower to middle class, and younger rather than adults. It is created in such a way to preserve teachings, and not be able to interpret it in any other way than just a story.

This movie is similar in a way to the version of Snow White that we saw, because of its humanization of certain elements. In Snow White, instead of the "magical" element of the mirror, we got a clever machine. In this movie, the devil is very human looking. There is not necessarily an aspect of "devilish" nature, like I would necessarily expect. While the devil does have horns and a tail, they are very minimal in terms of the whole. His magic is also overdone, and could be explained by special effects.

I found the medium of this film to be told in a very humorous way, especially the part with the boy taking care of the devil. There is no devil's grandmother as in the Grimms novel. Instead, the boy is left handling things himself. He watches the devil play piano, combs out his hair, makes him dinner...I interpreted this part of the plot as an additional way to make the concept of this movie ridiculous, and fake. This society didn't want to acknowledge that there was magic, or stories other then the ones they were telling.

1 comments:

Michelle Kim said...

Its interesting that you mention the humanization of elements in both films - I never thought about that. It would also be interesting to think about what effect this humanization has on the way the audience perceives the stories...

March 18, 2009 2:05 PM

Post by Caitlin Humphreys from ,,The Mean Giant''

DEFA Films

There are obvious parallels between The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs and DEFA’s Schneewittchen. The emphasis on work in The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs becomes apparent in the opening scene at the blacksmith’s shop because the scene seems longer and more detailed than necessary. The idolizing of anything “good” or “hardworking” also manifests itself early in the film, as it also does in Schneewittchen with the scene in the kitchen that cinematically values the work done by the kitchen help. Another similarity between the two films lies in the mockery of the monarchy and disparaging of the vices enjoyed by the monarchy, which include food and money. In The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs, the film seems to associate the monarchy with debauchery (the king’s drunkenness in the forest), along with stupidity (the refusal to believe in the existence of robbers). Interestingly, one major difference between The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs and Schneewittchen is the more chaotic and hectic atmosphere in The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs compared to Schneewittchen, in which the chaos seems confined to scenes involving the monarchy.

The target audience for The Devil’s Three Golden Hairs might have been children in East Germany, whom the government hoped to teach important lessons with the film. The slapstick humor seems like it would have appealed most to children, because it appears a bit too juvenile for an older audience. However, some of the lessons embedded in the film might be hard for children to interpret so maybe the film is also meant for the parents watching the film with their children.

1 comments:

Alex! said...

I hadn't thought of the film as being targeted for a young audience. I viewed the slapstick humor and political comments to be more geared towards adults. But I see how one could posit that DEFA wanted to instruct children as well as their working class parents.

March 17, 2009 10:48 PM

Post by Tim Collazi from ,,The Cruel Witch''

DEFA Version of Devil's Golden Hair

I think that the target audience of this movie is the proletariat in the Soviet Union. I feel that the movie is full of social commentary about capitalist society. The king/aristocracy represent the bourgeois and upper classes that prosper and live lavishly while the lower classes are being exploited. The victory of the working class, Jacob's ability to beat the devil and the King, is a reminder as to why socialism "is the answer." Also, although the King is directly responsible for the suffering in his kingdom, the peasants believe that the devil is to blame. I cannot help but think that DEFA is linking the two figures together, thereby commenting that capitalism is evil and leads to horrible things. In the end they are punished, as the commoners have their revenge. The devil is fed massive amounts of wine, and meat, stuffing him tremendously. This is ironic because excessive consumerism which he supports is a punishment to him. Keep in mind that this movie was also made in 1977 GDR, so it is just about to celebrate its 30th anniversary. This film would reinforce socialist ideals that the Soviet Union would exemplify in the time of such celebration.
This movie also reminds me of the Snow White DEFA film. In the Snow White version, the mirror is made out to be a piece of technology. One can see in the devil's layer that all the things that try to make the devil frightening are really just a punch of smoke and machines. It is also like the Snow White film because they both place emphasis on workers, and that there is dignity in work. The images of labor and the laboring class are presented because they should generate feelings of respect.
Film is very beneficial to this fairy tale. First, by reinforcing the message of class awareness, scenes are presented in which the upper class are presented as incompetent idiots. The tax collector, the king, the devil, etc. The things that they worry about and whine about are nothing compared to the hardships facing the working class. Technology is also useful with the three golden hairs, the special effects are very cool. Again, the movie is made in a commical fashion, so there is humorous dialogue, and imagery. This can be seen when the devil is being stuffed.

Assignment 7 - 17.March 2009

After having viewed the DEFA film "The Devil's Three Golden Hairs", do the following:

1. Try to interpret from the movie, who the target audience might be. Keep in mind, that the film was made in 1977 in East Germany.

2. Compare the movie with the DEFA version of Snow White.

3. Explain how the medium 'film' is used to tell the story. You could consider talking about the plot, dialogue, etc.

Do try to touch upon all three points in your blog.

Deadline for posts: 11.00 a.m. on Wednesday

Deadline for comments on at least two posts: Midnight on Wednesday

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Prompt 6: Beauty and the Beast

The element of magic is what stood out to me the most when comparing the Cocteau’s movie to Beaumont’s version of Beauty and the Beast. In this written version, the merchant father finds an “immense castle,” but the detail of him exploring the “house” makes it sound pretty normal. The way that Beaumont sneaks the element of magic in is by having the father say, “Surely…this palace belongs to some good fairy who has taken pity on me” (34). This conveys that all of the seemingly natural events explained, were actually caused by the supernatural. As for the introduction of the castle, Beaumont downplays the magic. Meanwhile, Cocteau uses the small detail of magic in the castle to create a big dramatic scene for the singing merchant father. There are moving human arms attached to all the candle lights in the hallways that turn on and off according to where the father (or Belle) goes. Similar arms can also be found at the dinner table, serving food, as well as opening curtains for the guest. The music in the background has a mystical and mysterious sound that is also eerie. The creepy statues in the dining room, as well as many other rooms, have heads that move to follow the guest. Their eyes also light up, as if they can see. Another magical aspect is that the horse, Magnificent, somehow knows exactly where to take Belle and the father. As if all of this is not enough, Cocteau emphasizes magic even more when Belle is getting accustomed to the mysterious castle. The doors sing to her to tell her which room is for her, and the mirror sings to give instructions. Also, the bed prepares itself for Belle by pulling back the sheets. Clearly, Cocteau took a fairly small detail that Beaumont kept a bit hidden, and exaggerated to make this part of the story more exhilarating.

Posted by Anna Fargo

Post by Erica D. Santiago from ,,The Curse''

Beauty and The Beast

The Cocteau film version differed greatly from the Beaumont version of Beauty and the Beast by the ways that each dealt with the fate of the evil sisters of Beauty. There is a wrapped up conclusion to the sister's having to be punished for treating Beauty so wickedly by having the fairy transform them into statues and that would be their fate to suffer. While in the film version there was no mention of the sisters by the end of the tale. It did not tie a pretty little bow that described the Beauty seeking revenge upon her sisters that really did not love and care for their father like Beauty did, and were so jealous that Beauty was the most chased after woman that they constantly wanted to see her fail. I just wish that the film would have expressed the fate of the sisters since they did seem like a vital part of the story line itself that it was just odd to not to find out what ended up happening to them by the end.

Posted by Erica D. Santiago

Post by Lydia Ohl from ,,The Mean Giant''

The ending of Cocteau's la belle et la bete has always stuck out to me, especially the image of beauty and the beast flying away. It is a very strange and beautiful image with the billowing fabric is a much more powerful image than returning to the palace. The film cuts our the whole reunion with the family, although it is mentioned that belle will reunite with her father, and her sisters will be demeaned. The lovers fly off in clouds and smoke, embracing and almost dancing, free from their previous restraints; belle's family and the beast's ugliness.

I also particularly like the line that Belle says: c'etais moi le monstre - i was the monster. This places more blame on belle than de beaumont's story. Belle does not apologize for letting his ugliness overweight his kindness. Instead she encourages him to fight for his life and her love, and it becomes a discussion on what a man vs. a beast can do for love- a man can fight, but a beast can only grovel at his love's feet.

There is also the whole added plot line of Avenant, her brother's friend who wants to marry belle, and who belle admits to loving. I have always found it a bit creepy that Avenant and la bete are played by the same actor, but it makes sense that when seen in the plot line that the beast is only turned back into a man when Avenant is kill/transformed. It is interesting that he tells belle that he changed because of a loving look, when the director seems to point to the diana statue shooting Avenant and transferring the curse to another, with the beast taking on Avenant's appearance.

Posted by lydiaohl@me.com

Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Cocteau vs. Beaumont: The Beast

One thing that I noticed in Cocteau's “Beauty and the Beast” that is different than in Beaumont’s version is the way in which the Beast is presented. In Beaumont's version, the beast is described as having such a frightening appearance that it could cause a person to faint. The only characteristics in Beaumont's version that define a beast are his ugliness and his lack of intelligence/wit. In Cocteau's “Beauty and the Beast”, however, the beast is not only presented as being ugly and described as having no wit, but Cocteau also includes scenes and additional dialogue that are not included in Beaumont's version that suggest that the beast behaves more animal-like than human-like at times. For instance, Cocteau includes the scene in which Belle peers out the fence door and sees the Beast messily drinking from the pond like a parched wolf. Cocteau also includes the scene in which the Beast is distracted by a nearby, darting deer, as if he wants to spring at it and devour it. Lastly, Cocteau includes the scene where the Beast is creepily stationed outside of Belle’s room late at night covered in blood. Thus, Cocteau presents the Beast as more of an animal than Beaumont does. Even though the Beast is ugly and dumb in Beaumont’s version, he still always acts like a kind, civilized human being.

Posted by Allison at 8:05 PM

Alex! said...

I also noticed the differences between the two beasts. In having to turn the beast into a visual character, Cocteau had to create his beast from his own imagination. I like how he gave him more of an animal persona than that of a hideous monster.

Tim said...

I think Allison makes a very good observation when discussing the portrayal of the beast in Cocteau's film. I am reminded of what we talked about in class on Tuesday, when we discussed what actually makes a beast and is the beast really a beast? (besides his physical). In the Beaumont version, when the sisters' husbands are being described, one really can see that the so-called "beast" would be a better spouse than them. However, I feel that when the beast is made into an actual animal, some of the social commentary is lost. Just a thought...

Post by Michelle Kim from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Cocteau vs. de Beaumont

One difference I noticed between the Cocteau film and de Beaumont's version of Beauty and the Beast was the part of the story where Beauty/Belle goes to take her father's place at the Beast's castle.
In the de Beaumont's version, Belle pleads with her father and brothers to let her go to die instead of her father, and ultimately her father and brothers give in. Even though Belle's father is pretty upset at having to leave her to die in his stead, in the end he leaves her to the mercy of the Beast. However, in Cocteau's version, Beauty mentions that she wants to go to the Beast's castle in place of her father, but before any course of action is decided, the father falls ill and the next day Beauty sneaks out of the house to go to the Beast's castle without her father and brother knowing.

Though this is a relatively minor difference, I still believe it is significant. De Beaumont's version has reader questioning the love Beauty's father has for his daughter - as discussed in class, how can the father just hand over his (favorite) daughter to a Beast? But Cocteau eliminates this predicament altogether. By tweaking the story so that Belle sneaks out without her father knowing, viewers can't really blame the father for being unloving or selfish - Beauty's decision to go to the Beast's castle was out of his hands. Cocteau enables the father to maintain a reputation of being the ultimate loving and caring father - something that is easier for a viewer to understand than a father who allows his own daughter to die in his place.

Posted by Michelle Kim at 2:36 PM

Assignment 6 - 10.March 2009

Pick one scene or element from Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast, and compare it or contrast it with de Beaumont's version. You might pick something that interests you, that seems odd, or something that you missed in one version or the other, for example.

For those of you who didn't manage to, you have time to complete the reading and watch the film, which is available on OAK and also on Reserve in the Library.

Deadline for putting up your responses is 09.00 p.m. on Wednesday.

Deadline for comment on at least one post is 10.00 a.m. on Thursday.

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Promp #5: Cinderella

In class today, we discussed what makes up a typical Cinderella story. I chose the following illustrations to talk about because I really like how it takes so many aspects of the story and puts them into one picture. Also, the placement of all these aspects seems important. First, towards the back is the fireplace, which represents the servant life that she leaves behind. Front and center is the glass slipper surrounded by horns which, as far as we know, is the most recent part in Cinderella's life. Also, Cinderella's animal helpers, the pumpkin that turns into her carriage, and the element of time are all included at the top of the image. This shows how these are parts of the story, but they are not the most important seeing as they are outside of the stage. The fairy godmother is placed across from Cinderella to show how her character is key in the happy ending for Cinderella. Cinderella is depicted as pretty, but by the way she's sitting she seems rather shy. On the stage border, there are three faces, I think that the bottom and top faces represent the stepmother and stepsisters who make fun of Cinderella and make her life difficult. Meanwhile, the middle one represents the Prince and father who are the dreamy male figures in Cinderellas life.

Posted by Anna Fargo