Bettelheim assignment
Here is my response:
The Bettelheim article makes a strong case for why fairy tales are more than mere children’s entertainment. As argued in the article, not only do fairy tales have a deep effect on children’s unconscious but they have the power to effect adults as well. Bettelheim argues that children’s literature must fulfill the purpose of relating to all aspects of his personality, including giving recognition to the seriousness of the situations that the child encounters throughout their life. Children are exposed to the society in which they live and dealing with that society requires certain unconscious tools to cope with difficult situations. Through fairy tales, children are not just receiving a vacuous message, as found in other children’s literature. They are exposed to moral lessons that show the advantage of moral behavior. More importantly, fairy tales present to children adverse or difficult situations in which the characters deal with the situation and eventually overcome the obstacle. I think this is the most important takeaway from either article; instead of children’s literature that shelters children from the world and only presents human nature in a positive/optimistic light, fairy tales confront the child squarely with basic human problems so that they are better equipped to deal with these problems in the real-world. Fairy tales give children the tools to cope with the world and fosters a well-rounded vision of human nature, both positive and negative. Let me know what you think!
Posted by Megan Gilbert at 1:54 PM
Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Post by Benton Payne from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''
Response #1
As I see it, the key difference between these two articles has to do with what they perceive their subject matter to be. While reading Bettelheim, it appears that the author is much more concerned with the stories we tell our children and how that relates to their psychological make up. While this may be an interesting topic, it is clear that he really isn't talking about fairy tales at all. He is interested in the popular versions of Red Riding Hood and why this story is better for young children than other stories parents may read, but in this analysis he doesn't really get to the root of what fairy tales are, rather what their modern transformation into children's stories can do for our kids. Darnton, on the other hand, sees this gap in Bettelheim's argument. There's nothing particularly wrong with Bettelheim's analysis of the effects of good stories on children, but the fact is that this argument really doesn't have anything to do with fairy tales at all, just children's stories, many of which may be derived from sources like the Grimms and Mother Goose. In Darnton's article, he focuses more on the anthropological importance and development of fairy tales: who told them, why they are what they are, how they were perceived by the audience, et cetera. This is a much better template to understanding these tales and their unique place in the history of oral and written literature. Darnton sees fairy tales as what they really are and tries to understand them in that light rather than going down Bettelheim's road of placing other meanings on a particularly recent incarnation of these stories. In the end, Darnton's view provides a much richer and more accurate way of seeing fairy tales both within and out of their historical contexts. Fairy tales are evolving, vague, unique, enriching, sometimes unsettling, and thoughtful pieces of history, not merely bedtime stories to keep our kids from growing up crazy.
-Benton Payne
As I see it, the key difference between these two articles has to do with what they perceive their subject matter to be. While reading Bettelheim, it appears that the author is much more concerned with the stories we tell our children and how that relates to their psychological make up. While this may be an interesting topic, it is clear that he really isn't talking about fairy tales at all. He is interested in the popular versions of Red Riding Hood and why this story is better for young children than other stories parents may read, but in this analysis he doesn't really get to the root of what fairy tales are, rather what their modern transformation into children's stories can do for our kids. Darnton, on the other hand, sees this gap in Bettelheim's argument. There's nothing particularly wrong with Bettelheim's analysis of the effects of good stories on children, but the fact is that this argument really doesn't have anything to do with fairy tales at all, just children's stories, many of which may be derived from sources like the Grimms and Mother Goose. In Darnton's article, he focuses more on the anthropological importance and development of fairy tales: who told them, why they are what they are, how they were perceived by the audience, et cetera. This is a much better template to understanding these tales and their unique place in the history of oral and written literature. Darnton sees fairy tales as what they really are and tries to understand them in that light rather than going down Bettelheim's road of placing other meanings on a particularly recent incarnation of these stories. In the end, Darnton's view provides a much richer and more accurate way of seeing fairy tales both within and out of their historical contexts. Fairy tales are evolving, vague, unique, enriching, sometimes unsettling, and thoughtful pieces of history, not merely bedtime stories to keep our kids from growing up crazy.
-Benton Payne
Post by Amy-Lee Gillard from ,,The Mean Giant''
Darnton
I believe that Darnton was more successful than Bettelheim at explaining how fairy tales are more than merely children’s entertainment. Darnton explores the fact that although the settings of fairy tales are never specifically given, they usually maintain a close relationship to the culture in which they originated. This connection to the time and place in which they were created makes fairy tales innately historical. Even though they do not describe specific historical events, they can offer insight into the values and influences of the past. In addition to the historical insight offered by the origins of fairy tales, the way in which they continue to adapt to contemporary culture throughout the ages can serve as a sort of timeline for changes in societal values and norms within a culture. Fairy tales may often be a child’s first experience learning about the history and values of his or her culture.
Posted by AmyLee120 at 9:22 PM
I believe that Darnton was more successful than Bettelheim at explaining how fairy tales are more than merely children’s entertainment. Darnton explores the fact that although the settings of fairy tales are never specifically given, they usually maintain a close relationship to the culture in which they originated. This connection to the time and place in which they were created makes fairy tales innately historical. Even though they do not describe specific historical events, they can offer insight into the values and influences of the past. In addition to the historical insight offered by the origins of fairy tales, the way in which they continue to adapt to contemporary culture throughout the ages can serve as a sort of timeline for changes in societal values and norms within a culture. Fairy tales may often be a child’s first experience learning about the history and values of his or her culture.
Posted by AmyLee120 at 9:22 PM
Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''
Resonse to Bettelheim and Darnton Question
At first, my response to this question seemed obvious. But then, after having looked over the texts and the question a little more, I realized that one can interpret the question in two different ways.
My first interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of how children, specifically, learn and benefit from them. My obvious response to this interpretation of the question is that Bettelheim’s “The Struggle for Meaning” helped me to think of fairy tales, as not only a means of entertaining children, but also as a means of teaching them. Bettelheim discusses how a child can find meaning in life through fairy tales. For instance, fairy tales deal with universal human problems and the ethically appropriate solutions. Although fairy tales do not reflect modern mass society, the values and morals discussed in fairy tales do, for the most part, remain unchanged today.
Another interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of thinking past the most common application of fairy tales today –children’s stories, and looking at them as historical pieces which represent the culture during which they were created. My response to this interpretation would be that Darnton’s text, “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose”. Darnton discusses original recordings of French fairy tales and how inappropriate and disgusting they were. He discusses and criticizes Bettelheim’s, as well as Fromm’s, interpretation of certain fairy tales. He also discusses how fairy tales were originally passed on orally, and how amazing it is that this technique was surprisingly pretty accurate.
Posted by Allison at 2:53 PM
At first, my response to this question seemed obvious. But then, after having looked over the texts and the question a little more, I realized that one can interpret the question in two different ways.
My first interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of how children, specifically, learn and benefit from them. My obvious response to this interpretation of the question is that Bettelheim’s “The Struggle for Meaning” helped me to think of fairy tales, as not only a means of entertaining children, but also as a means of teaching them. Bettelheim discusses how a child can find meaning in life through fairy tales. For instance, fairy tales deal with universal human problems and the ethically appropriate solutions. Although fairy tales do not reflect modern mass society, the values and morals discussed in fairy tales do, for the most part, remain unchanged today.
Another interpretation of the question was that it was asking which of the two texts is more productive in helping one think about fairy tales as more than children’s entertainment, in terms of thinking past the most common application of fairy tales today –children’s stories, and looking at them as historical pieces which represent the culture during which they were created. My response to this interpretation would be that Darnton’s text, “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose”. Darnton discusses original recordings of French fairy tales and how inappropriate and disgusting they were. He discusses and criticizes Bettelheim’s, as well as Fromm’s, interpretation of certain fairy tales. He also discusses how fairy tales were originally passed on orally, and how amazing it is that this technique was surprisingly pretty accurate.
Posted by Allison at 2:53 PM
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Assignment 1- 13.Jan 2009
Below you will find the question to which all of you must post one response by Tuesday Midnight.
On Wednesday, there will be four posts to read, since you have four group mates. Read through their responses and comment on at least two of them. You could agree, disagree, pose a related question and try to build on what the other person has said.
By Wednesday Midnight, you will have to have posted the comments, so that I can look through what you have written, and forward interesting posts/comments to Prof. Figal.
THE QUESTION FOR 13.JANUARY 2009:
Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?
Darnton, Robert. “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
or
Bettelheim, Bruno. “The Struggle for Meaning,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
On Wednesday, there will be four posts to read, since you have four group mates. Read through their responses and comment on at least two of them. You could agree, disagree, pose a related question and try to build on what the other person has said.
By Wednesday Midnight, you will have to have posted the comments, so that I can look through what you have written, and forward interesting posts/comments to Prof. Figal.
THE QUESTION FOR 13.JANUARY 2009:
Which of the following two essays do you find more productive in helping you to think about fairy tales as more than children's entertainment? Why?
Darnton, Robert. “Peasants Tell Tales: The Meaning of Mother Goose,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
or
Bettelheim, Bruno. “The Struggle for Meaning,” in Tatar, The Classic Fairy Tales
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
