Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Post by Mallory Hely from ,,The Curse''
Assignment 8 Cont.
In the Grimm's The Robber Bridegroom, the heroine is presented in an interesting light. First, once she enters the murderers' home, it is the older woman and not her who comes up with the plan to hide behind the barrel. The old woman also saves her when she is about to be discovered. Furthermore, she could not even come up with an interesting story to tell at her own wedding at first questioning. "The bride remained still and did not utter a word." (144) Upon further prodding from her new husband, she tells the tale of her adventure to the house in the woods. The guests come to her rescue and all of the murderers are executed. With this conclusion of her wedding, it can only be assumed that she now can live happily ever after as a pleasant and dutiful wife.
Post by Erin Martin from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''
Treatment of the Heroine
Bluebeard is not the first fairy tale in which we've seen a heroine who is cunning and active in her own right (see: some versions of Little Red Riding Hood and Hansel and Gretel) However, this is the first that I can recall where the heroine is introduced outright as being intelligent, in addition to being beautiful. She is everything that Snow White is not; rather than being the silent, still girl in a glass display case, she has agency and makes decisions--and pays dearly for it.
"He no longer had power over her, and had to do her bidding," write the Brothers Grimm in Fitcher's Bird, exemplifying the heroine's intelligence as her means of escaping trouble on her own.
"She was terrified that she might wake one of them up, but God guided her footsteps," they write in the Robber Bridegroom, attributing even divine protection on their heroine, a far cry from shaming her for disobedience.
I don't think that this story is meant to demonize curiosity in women, as the Perrault moral (in rhyme, no less, so it's easy to remember/needlepoint onto a pillow!) dictates. If this were really a story whose moral seeks to discourage women from disobeying their husbands, the heroine would have died. End of story. Bluebeard is the one who pays in the end, stabbed to death by the heroine's brothers and relatives, his end brought about by the very woman who ignored the arbitrary demands he would not even be around to enforce. Her curiosity could even be considered a good thing--she found the chamber and set about a series of events that brought a serial killer to justice! Great justification for snooping! The Perrault version of Bluebeard is the only story in the cluster than even takes this stance--all the rest praise the heroine's cunning and condemn Bluebeard's abhorrent deeds. Fitcher's Bird, the Robber Bridegroom, and Mr. Fox all present a resolution contigent on the heroine's cunning ploy to trap the villain, rather than punish her for sticking her nose where she ought not.
"He no longer had power over her, and had to do her bidding," write the Brothers Grimm in Fitcher's Bird, exemplifying the heroine's intelligence as her means of escaping trouble on her own.
"She was terrified that she might wake one of them up, but God guided her footsteps," they write in the Robber Bridegroom, attributing even divine protection on their heroine, a far cry from shaming her for disobedience.
I don't think that this story is meant to demonize curiosity in women, as the Perrault moral (in rhyme, no less, so it's easy to remember/needlepoint onto a pillow!) dictates. If this were really a story whose moral seeks to discourage women from disobeying their husbands, the heroine would have died. End of story. Bluebeard is the one who pays in the end, stabbed to death by the heroine's brothers and relatives, his end brought about by the very woman who ignored the arbitrary demands he would not even be around to enforce. Her curiosity could even be considered a good thing--she found the chamber and set about a series of events that brought a serial killer to justice! Great justification for snooping! The Perrault version of Bluebeard is the only story in the cluster than even takes this stance--all the rest praise the heroine's cunning and condemn Bluebeard's abhorrent deeds. Fitcher's Bird, the Robber Bridegroom, and Mr. Fox all present a resolution contigent on the heroine's cunning ploy to trap the villain, rather than punish her for sticking her nose where she ought not.
Post by Briana Weiser from ,,The Mean Giant"
Clever Bride in "The Robber Bridegroom"
In the "Robber Bridegroom," the female protagonist is portrayed in an intelligent, clever manner. She shows foresight in filling "both her pockets with peas and lentils to mark the way" to the bridegroom's house - thereby listening to the feelings that make her "dreadfully frightened" when she "was supposed to leave." The girl also places her trust rightly in the matronly old woman, who saves her when she tells the robbers to " 'come and eat,'" efficiently distracting them from trying to find the finger that flew into the girl's lap. Even though going through the gruesome ordeal of witnessing a murder, she also does not faint or scream when hiding behind the barrel, and is only said to be "trembling and shaking." The girl then escapes with the old woman and immediately tells "her father about everything that had happened." She has the werewithal to keep the chopped off finger and ring to present as evidence later during the wedding celebration. The girl is never described as overtly curious and she does not disobey anyone's orders. Therefore, I would say that she is depicted as possessing a high level of intelligence and self-preservation.
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I completely agree with you that the girl in this tale seems to be a model of cleverness and self-preservation. The cleverness shown by marking the way home with peas and lentils and then her plot to reveal the bridegroom as a robber by telling the story like it was a dream show great cleverness and self-preservation instincts.
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You bring up some very good points; however, I do have a problem with one of them. I disagree that the female protagonist's trust in the old woman was clever or intelligent. In the end it obviously worked out for the best however she had no reason to trust the old woman at first. She very easily could have been one of the robbers trying to trick her. I girl exemplifying self-preservation would more likely be suspicious of such an eerie old woman in such an ominous setting. This heroine just turned out to be lucky.
Post by Brian Collura from ,,The Mean Giant''
The contextually disobedient wife. Don't hit me.
"Rich is the man whose wife is dead and horse alive"
This is an anonymous proverb from Agricultural France, back in the day not long before Bluebeard would begin to be first told. While today, the tale speaks volumes about the man's treachery and blatant criminal record, the society from which this tale comes is one where family and marriage were only just worth the procreation that they enabled. According to sociologist Edward Shorter, in France a husband would likely be publicly humiliated for not having control of his wife by riding an ass backward through town. The death of a child was so common that it hardly caused sorrow, and in fact infanticide or [close to it] the abandonment or giving away of children was not uncommon. Thus, it is unlikely that emotional attachments existed to any great degree like they do today. (Sociology 101 text, by Rodney Stark)
Put in this [breifly described] setting, the crime of Bluebeard's murders and the crime of his wife's disobedience can be met at a much more level plane. Perroult's morals back this as well: while "Curiosity... can bring with it serious regrets," and "women succumb," "You will understand that this tale is one that took place many years ago. No longer are husbands so terrible".
Another proverb from the same time and place to end on -
"The two sweetest days of a fellow in life,
Are the marriage and burial of his wife."
This is an anonymous proverb from Agricultural France, back in the day not long before Bluebeard would begin to be first told. While today, the tale speaks volumes about the man's treachery and blatant criminal record, the society from which this tale comes is one where family and marriage were only just worth the procreation that they enabled. According to sociologist Edward Shorter, in France a husband would likely be publicly humiliated for not having control of his wife by riding an ass backward through town. The death of a child was so common that it hardly caused sorrow, and in fact infanticide or [close to it] the abandonment or giving away of children was not uncommon. Thus, it is unlikely that emotional attachments existed to any great degree like they do today. (Sociology 101 text, by Rodney Stark)
Put in this [breifly described] setting, the crime of Bluebeard's murders and the crime of his wife's disobedience can be met at a much more level plane. Perroult's morals back this as well: while "Curiosity... can bring with it serious regrets," and "women succumb," "You will understand that this tale is one that took place many years ago. No longer are husbands so terrible".
Another proverb from the same time and place to end on -
"The two sweetest days of a fellow in life,
Are the marriage and burial of his wife."
Post by Alex Howard from ,,The Cruel Witch''
Bluebeard's Heroine
In the Brothers Grimm version of Bluebeard, "Fitcher's Bird," the first women the reader encounter's is not presented with any hint of personality or character. When she goes to the door and "was about to hand him a piece of bread, he just touched her and she jumped into his basket." The same description is given of the second daughter and both of them meet the same fate. The third daughter, however, is a much more dynamic character. She is even described as "clever and cunning." And she even "put the egg in a safe place." She definitely celebrates the self-preservation and cunning aspects of femininity. She succeeds is putting her sisters back together, quite literally, and bringing them back to life. She also forges a plan to get them home safely. After the third daughter has set the precedent for being cunning and clever, the first and second daughters follow suit. They trick the sorcerer while he is on his way to her house by crying from the basket as if they are the third daughter. When they are all together in the end, they orchestrate for their brothers and relatives to "set fire to [the house] so that the sorcerer and his crew burned to death." In the end, feminine cunning wins and curiosity indirectly kills the sorcerer instead of the cat.
Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''
Prompt 8 - Question 1: Horror
I noticed that the elements of horror in most of these versions of Bluebeard were somewhat similar and helped the story be more exciting. Blood and gore, the unexpected, suspense, and realism are the aspects that stood out for me. First, the fact that this sort of horrific chain of events could potentially happen to anyone is scary. Humans do certain tings all the time because of curiosity and temptation. Another common aspect of the stories involves either someone's finger being chopped off, or walking into a room full of blood and dead women. This just adds to the intensity of how bad the consequences of your actions can be and adds detail to the story. Also, nobody expects the blood to stay on the egg or key. When a ring doesn't come off right away, today, people would use lotion to remove it, so the sword was quite a surprise. The unexpected is horrific and seems to be used to keep the attention of the audience. Finally, the element of suspense is also used to keep the audience reading. This is seen when the wife is buying minutes of time so that she can live, but the audience is at the edge of theire seats because Bluebeard could kill her at any point in time. Another example of suspense is when the girls iding in "The Robber Bridegroom" and "Mr. Fox" could be discovered and murdered at any time. In gereal, these four main elements of horror inhance these versions of Bluebeard in similar ways.
Post by Erin Martin from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''
Elements of Horror
In the stories of Bluebeard, the horrific secret hidden behind the door in each respective telling of the tale seems to address the question, "What is absolutely the most nauseating, terrifying thing the disobedient wife could find behind the door to the forbidden room?" That Bluebeard is a serial killer seems to be of less consequence than the young wife's indiscretion--he did specifically tell her not to open the door, didn't he? The horror in this story is not standalone. Bluebeard is not the terrifying tale of a mad murderer--it centers on the girl's bizarre experience in relation to Bluebeard, and how the horrors were brought on by her curiosity, defiance, agency, etc.
While the horror trope is basically the same in all the stories (horrific death of innocent girl witnessed by the heroine), where the stories differ is in the attitude the narratorial voice has toward what the girl sees. The Perrault version treats the chamber as something terrifying in and of itself. In the Grimm version (Fitcher's Bird), the bloody chamber and the murders of the heroine's sisters serve as more of a challenge for the third sister to overcome. And in the Jacobs version, the narrator is somewhat cavalier about the girl's macarbe discovery, as though she had just stumbled upon Mr. Fox's unsettling collection of Scientology literature rather than the mangled corpses of his victims.
We've talked a lot in this course about the tones of these stories as interpreted by at 21st century audience likely indoctrinated from the crib with the Disneyfied versions of fairy tales. The intermingling of horror and fantasy in the literary versions of fairy tales is a little bit jarring at first, and in this series of stories, we are seeing it from a different perspective: that horror in literature has a place other than blood and guts for the sake of blood and guts.
While the horror trope is basically the same in all the stories (horrific death of innocent girl witnessed by the heroine), where the stories differ is in the attitude the narratorial voice has toward what the girl sees. The Perrault version treats the chamber as something terrifying in and of itself. In the Grimm version (Fitcher's Bird), the bloody chamber and the murders of the heroine's sisters serve as more of a challenge for the third sister to overcome. And in the Jacobs version, the narrator is somewhat cavalier about the girl's macarbe discovery, as though she had just stumbled upon Mr. Fox's unsettling collection of Scientology literature rather than the mangled corpses of his victims.
We've talked a lot in this course about the tones of these stories as interpreted by at 21st century audience likely indoctrinated from the crib with the Disneyfied versions of fairy tales. The intermingling of horror and fantasy in the literary versions of fairy tales is a little bit jarring at first, and in this series of stories, we are seeing it from a different perspective: that horror in literature has a place other than blood and guts for the sake of blood and guts.
Post by Emily Schweickhardt from ,,The Nasty Stepmother"
the horror
An element of horror is the concept of loss of female virginity. The bloody key is a motif that runs through the different versions of this concept. Linked with loss of female virginity is marital disobedience-- the fear of the husband [or robber] that the woman is going to somehow betray him. that is why Bluebeard-- or the robbers- or the similar characters-- do not seem to trust their wives, and always manage to "catch" her in her lies. Further linked with loss of female virginity is the notion of any kind of "transgressive desire" in respects to the female character. She is supposed to stay in line, and if she strays, then she is always caught and "taught her lesson."
Another element of horror is the sheer psychotic rage on Bluebeard's character. He seems utterly emotionless, or, as Tatar says, "abject" to his acts of murder. He is absolutely heartless. It makes him unhuman.
Overall, all the Bluebeard tales taint marriage with its threat of murder. The Bluebeard tales make it out to seem like you can never get too comfortable with your husband or wife, because you can never trust someone when it comes right down to it. Bluebeard, as Tatar puts it, "confirms a child's worst fears about sex." With marriage or sex comes betrayal and murder, in the Bluebeard tales, and is rendered in elements in the tales such as the characters' anxieties. In "Bluebeard's Ghost" Sly's nephew commits the ultimate betrayal, even though he is not married to Bluebeard's widow, he is the potential suitor, so the theme of elements of horror applies to him. The concept of him dressing-up as a deceased man-- Bluebeard-- and tricking people based on that-- proves how sick and twisted his mind is, to an extent that is more than creepy to the reader. The nightmares and anxiety that Bluebeard's widow has because of the whole situation augments the horror of the "trickery."
Post by Amy-Lee Gillard from ,,The Mean Giant''
Question 1: Horror in Bluebeard
In my opinion the most horrific aspect of any of the Bluebeard stories was the first moral at the end of Perrault's version. Somehow this moral manages to turn a fairy tale about a male serial killer into a tool to place social constraints upon women. The Perrault and Grimm versions teach that a women should always obey her husband or else she will receive severe punishment. These stories offer the ultimate form of Victim Blaming. Because the wife disobeyed her husband and entered the forbidden room, she risks her life. The husband's crazed and murderous tendencies is excused while the wife's curiosity is chastised. The inhuman nature of the Bluebeard character is also shocking. The Grimms' versions and then Jacobs version actually goes so far as to describe the brutal murders of women.
Perhaps the best message that a woman could take from these stories is that she should marry for love. All of these stories involved women marring the Blulebeard character due to an arranged marriage; despite a feeling of hesitation. If you take time to get to know your future husband, you probably stand a better chance of avoiding a brutal death at his hands later on.
Perhaps the best message that a woman could take from these stories is that she should marry for love. All of these stories involved women marring the Blulebeard character due to an arranged marriage; despite a feeling of hesitation. If you take time to get to know your future husband, you probably stand a better chance of avoiding a brutal death at his hands later on.
Post by Caitlin Humphreys from ,,The Mean Giant''
Horror in Bluebeard Tales
I think that in most of the Bluebeard stories horror functions as a way to reinforce the image of the husband as evil. In Perrault’s “Bluebeard” and the Grimm’s “Fitcher’s Bird,” the room that the wife is forbidden to enter is described in a manner seemingly designed to shock the reader. Perrault describes the room as covered in blood with dead women hanging on the walls, while the Brothers Grimm story depicts a basin filled with chopped up people. Both stories seem to want to horrify the reader and thus make him reflect on the evil nature of a man who would commit such acts. Similarly the Brothers Grimm story “The Robber Bridegroom” and Jacobs’ “Mr. Fox” describe the gruesome acts of a husband-to-be who cuts up girls, including cutting off their fingers to obtain the ring on it. The horror in these two stories seems essential to the plot in order to validate the woman’s refusal to marry the man in question. After telling the story of atrocities she sees her future husband commit, which she frames as a dream in both tales, she is no longer obligated to marry him and her family takes care the bridegroom for her.
One story that stands out as different from the others in its use of horror is “Bluebeard’s Ghost” by Thackeray. Thackeray seems to use horror as the device to prompt Bluebeard’s widow into making a decision between Mr. Sly and Captain Blackbeard. The horror manifests itself in the visits made by Bluebeard’s “ghost” to his widow during the night. When the widow finds out the real source of these supposedly supernatural visits, she learns the true nature of Mr. Sly and is able to pick Captain Blackbeard without any qualms. In “Bluebeard’s Ghost” the horror provides almost the only action in the story and also propels the most important conflict in the story to its resolution in the widow’s picking of Blackbeard.
One story that stands out as different from the others in its use of horror is “Bluebeard’s Ghost” by Thackeray. Thackeray seems to use horror as the device to prompt Bluebeard’s widow into making a decision between Mr. Sly and Captain Blackbeard. The horror manifests itself in the visits made by Bluebeard’s “ghost” to his widow during the night. When the widow finds out the real source of these supposedly supernatural visits, she learns the true nature of Mr. Sly and is able to pick Captain Blackbeard without any qualms. In “Bluebeard’s Ghost” the horror provides almost the only action in the story and also propels the most important conflict in the story to its resolution in the widow’s picking of Blackbeard.
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It is very interesting that the story must frame Bluebeard is such a horrific light in order for it to be acceptable to the reader that the woman refuses to marry him. It is also interesting that despite the fact that the fairy tale clearly implies that Bluebeard went too far in his actions, the tale still implies that the dead women found were dead as a punishment for being to curious. Even though the story shows that the crazed Bluebeard took their punishment too seriously, it also shows that the women still deserved to be punished for disobeying him.
Post by Alex Howard from ,,The Cruel Witch''
Elements of Horror
The elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard set this story apart from other stories that we have previously read. In Charles Perrault's "Bluebeard," the most startling element of horror, albeit the first, is when Bluebeard's wife disobeys her husband and opens the forbidden door: "... she began to realize that the floor was covered with clotted blood and that the blood reflected the bodies of several dead women hung up on the walls (these were all the women Bluebeard had married and then murdered one after another)." The narrator even says that "she thought she would die of fright." This element of horror, the vivid description of the blood-stained room, serves to startle the reader and add an element of surprise to the story. Like many fairy tales, the story presents a prohibition that someone will undoubtedly cross. But this blood-stained setting leads the reader to a different frame of mind that most other fairy tales. In the Brothers Grimm's version, "Fitcher's Bird," the narrator provides an even more indepth description of the muderous abode: "... a large bloody basin filled with dead people who had been chopped to pieces. Next to the basin was a block of wood with a gleaming ax on it." In presenting the murder weapon itself, the image is more vivid and believable. The idea of seeing bodies chopped to pieces is more unappetizing than an image of whole bodies hanging from a wall. In this story, as well, the description of the blood-spattered room adds an element of horror that serves to shock the reader.
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I agree with you. The nasty pictures painted in a number of versions of Bluebeard set them a part from the other fairy tales we have examined this semester, in that they have that additional, disgusting element of horror, which make them appear more as a horror story than a fairy tale.
Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''
Question 1 Response: Elements of Horror
The most obvious and common element of horror found within the Bluebeard stories that we were assigned to read for class is that of the murder of young, beautiful, rich women-- women with any sort of power over men during those times. One does see variations between each version, though. For example, in the Grimm’s The Robber Bridegroom, the bridegroom or Bluebeard character finds women, murders them, and then eats them. The element of cannibalism is also included in this version, which changes one’s perception of the Bluebeard character. In other versions, such as the Grimm’s Fitcher’s Bird, Perrault’s Bluebeard, and Joseph Jacobs’s Mr. Fox, for example the wife or fiancé is murdered as a result of her own curiosity and disobedience. In The Robber Bridegroom, on the other hand, the female fiancé is completely innocent and would have been killed (although she wasn’t in the end) solely as a result of her bridegroom’s human blood lust. This changes the traditional Bluebeard story in that it eliminates any blame that might be directed onto the main female character within the story, and directs all on the cannibalistic men.
Another element within the various versions, that can be interpreted as horror by many women today—and clearly back then as well, since it is such a reoccurring theme-- is the idea of marrying a man that you do not love, or wish to marry. One sees this in the Grimm’s The Robber Bridegroom and Fitcher’s Bird, and also initially in Perrault’s Bluebeard. The only two that do not contain such a theme are Jacob’s Mr. Fox (1890) and Atwood’s Bluebeard’s Egg (1983). The most obvious reason why this theme may not be present in these two versions, especially in Atwood’s version, is the time during which it was written. Atwood’s version was written much later on, when marrying a man you do not wish to marry is not nearly as common as it was years ago (rising in social status and arranged marriages). This element of horror does change the perception of the main female character in the Bluebeard stories, in that when the female does not want to marry the Bluebeard character, it gives her, her intuition, her opinion, etc more credit.
Another element within the various versions, that can be interpreted as horror by many women today—and clearly back then as well, since it is such a reoccurring theme-- is the idea of marrying a man that you do not love, or wish to marry. One sees this in the Grimm’s The Robber Bridegroom and Fitcher’s Bird, and also initially in Perrault’s Bluebeard. The only two that do not contain such a theme are Jacob’s Mr. Fox (1890) and Atwood’s Bluebeard’s Egg (1983). The most obvious reason why this theme may not be present in these two versions, especially in Atwood’s version, is the time during which it was written. Atwood’s version was written much later on, when marrying a man you do not wish to marry is not nearly as common as it was years ago (rising in social status and arranged marriages). This element of horror does change the perception of the main female character in the Bluebeard stories, in that when the female does not want to marry the Bluebeard character, it gives her, her intuition, her opinion, etc more credit.
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
Assignment 8 - 24. March 2009
For this week, please complete two separate posts.
Question 1: Compare the elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard that you read for today. Please name the elements you are comparing and discuss how they function in the story. Do they help move the plot along? Elaborate the story? Startle the audience? etc.
Question 2: Tatar offers two readings of the heroine's character: either as a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness or as a disobedient female. Using a version other than the Perrault, consider how the heroine gets presented. Use quotes to support your reading.
DEADLINE for Posts: Midnight on Tuesday
DEADLINE for Comments on atleast two other posts: Midnight on Wednesday
Again, please post two separate entries!
Question 1: Compare the elements of horror in the various versions of Bluebeard that you read for today. Please name the elements you are comparing and discuss how they function in the story. Do they help move the plot along? Elaborate the story? Startle the audience? etc.
Question 2: Tatar offers two readings of the heroine's character: either as a celebration of self-preservation and cleverness or as a disobedient female. Using a version other than the Perrault, consider how the heroine gets presented. Use quotes to support your reading.
DEADLINE for Posts: Midnight on Tuesday
DEADLINE for Comments on atleast two other posts: Midnight on Wednesday
Again, please post two separate entries!
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I agree. It's interesting how the old woman is given credit for being clever and wise, but the "heroine" is actually portrayed more as dumb. She tells the story, but that wasn't really her idea...but I can't say that I think this version is all about female disobedience.