Post by Michelle Kim from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

The Vegetational Fatherhood

This story had some fairy tale elements like taking place in a non-specific time and place, and of course the transformation of the daughter into a rose during her nightly prayer.

But just reading through the story, the tone seemed very scientific (delving into the possibility that humans are linked with plants) and there was no element of magic in characters outside the mother, the father rose, the daughter, and Dr. Rosenberger - The outside world seems to be completely logical and magic-free as the mother and Dr. Rosenberger are put in an insane asylum when they suggest that the daughter transformed into a rose bush.

In the story, the mother and Dr. Rosenberger are seen as crazy when in fact they are the only ones that know the truth. Even when the daughter's autopsy showed clear signs that she was part plant, this fact was cast away as a science experiment Dr. Rosenberger had conducted. Maybe the point of this story is to question whether what we know as true is actually true or if it is just society's way of maintaining control over anything beyond the norm...

1 comments:

NBM said...

There was no element of magic in other characters, making me wonder as well if it was really a fairytale, or anything that could be classified in general

Tiffany said...

I think you make a really interesting point when you say that those who know the truth are treated as insane. This seems to fit what I said about the reversal of the norm.

Post by Tiffany Dempsey from ,,The Nasty Stepmother''

Interpretation of The Vegetational Fatherhood

This story was interesting in that it contained certain elements of a fairy tale, however, it seemed to work in reverse. The main idea this pertains to is the element of transformation. This transformation was not a curse or anything, but rather a willing occurrence. Also, the transformation did not end and ultimately led to the death of the young girl. It seems that in other tales read, the transformation ended after the hero solved the problem. In the Juniper Tree for example, once the stepmother was killed, the little boy was no longer a bird. In the Donkeyskin stories, the transformations protected the girls from harm. In the story The Seven Ravens, after the sister completed her quest, her brothers were restored. There are many examples of instances like these. Upon reading The Vegetational Fatherhood, this reversal of the element of transformation seems to characterize the story as a different take on fairy tales. It shares a very common aspect, but reverses "the norm."

2 comments:

Brian said...

I agree. In fact, it seems as though the author uses this fact to directly criticize the characters in the tale. Logically (or in any case, in the usual flow of a fairytale), the doctor should have in some way restored the girl to speak or to full human physiology. Instead, this process was interrupted by the doc's misunderstanding of the way a fairytale is supposed to work. Silly him, right?

Michelle Kim said...

I like your idea of the reversal of the element of transformation - it's an interesting way to look at that element of the fairy tale. I agree that this tale is somehow saying that the norm is maybe not the truth

Erica D. Santiago said...

I enjoyed that you pointed out the reversal in the tale compared to what we have read. However I do wonder if it was a reversal because it was forcefully straying and playing with the original Fairy Tale elements or not.

Post by Amy-Lee Gillard from ,,The Mean Giant''

The Vegetational Fatherhood: A Cautionary Tale Warning Humanity to Respect Nature

What I find most interesting about The Vegetational Fatherhood is that the story begins with a young woman being what can only be described as raped by a rose. This seems to represent a role reversal in the relationship between humanity and nature. Human's have long exploited (or raped) nature, greedily using up its resources without care or concern for how nature will be affected. In The Vegetational Fatherhood the rose uses the young woman's womb to link humanity and nature together by creating a hybrid being. This exploitation of the young woman to serve the will of nature is no different that humanity's exploitation of nature to serve its one purposes. It is simply the norm we are used to being turned on its head.

The hybrid being, a beautiful young girl, symbolizes the way in which nature is exploited by humanity. Nature usually regarded as mysterious, graceful, and, most importantly, feminine. Humanity and cultural advancement are usually regarded as powerful, factual, and, most importantly, masculine. The young girl is mute, unable to assert a voice in order to protect herself just as is nature. Dr. Rosenberger is a scientist who intends to bend his young bride to his will. He assumes she is pious but instead of respecting who she is he plans to "break her of this habit." Dr. Rosenberger clearly represents humanity and its demands while his young wife represents the innocence and vulnerability of nature.

Because Dr. Rosenberger is careless and disrespectful of his young wife's wishes he ultimately destroys her. He does so inadvertently, yet this could have been prevented had he respected her. His wife's death results in the destruction of Dr. Rosenberger's own life as well. This can be seen to comment on humanity's disrespect for nature. If humanity continues to drain the world of it natural resources and disrespect nature's right to flourish, nature will eventually be destroyed. And because humanity cannot exist without the support of nature, if humanity destroys nature it is effectively destroying itself.

Posted by AmyLee120

ydiaohl@me.com said...

I like the idea that you bring up that humanity will destroy itself by disrespecting and destroying nature. It is also interesting that the vegetal father was in the form of a rose, which looks beautiful, but it also has thorns which can prick and wound those who try to harm it.

Caitlin Humphreys said...

I really like your point about the common theme of humans exploiting nature seemingly being reversed in this tale.

Post by Jasmine Rasberry from ,,The Cruel Witch''

Veggie Tale

I didn't really interpret this tale as a fairy tale. It does have the transformation but that didn't seem like enough. I didn't really feel
like it was a Kunstmärchen either. There is no desire to travel and no passionate desire to know or get something beyond one's reach. The mother does want to know the truth about the baby but in a way she already knows or at least suspects. I feel that either way she is not that passionate about finding the truth. The tale reminds me the most of mythology. It recycles the idea of the innocent human being raped by the miraculous being. When I first began reading the story I thought of the mythological stories of Zeus and his affairs with earthly women, most specifically Zeus/Leda. Usually rape tales end contain a supernatural child, a freak child, a demigod or tragic ending. Usually the tales point to a dominate patriarchy or powerful empire and lust or rape as love. The "rape" in the beginning demonstrates plant's dominance over man and beast but also the supernatural or unexplainable over man and reason. The mom doesn't want to except what happened because it is not reasonable and she won't ell anyone either. The "foolhardy theoreticians" and "pedants" are unable to grasp the supernatural at the end of the tale. They hypothesize that the mom and husband are hysterical. They are "sinners" because they try to separate the "real" and divine/spiritual through reason and scientific practice. The rape also seems like a love scene because they seem to connect in the eyes and they are compelled by a yearning and a magical force. The story also resembles the Christ story to me because the "rape" seems parallel to the impregnation of the virgin, the daughter has some type of spiritual connection to her father ( the father is there but not there "vegetational fatherhood") and knows more than the mother and the daughter dies because of those who don't believe and those who witness the event are considered crazy. I don't know. What do you guys make of the first page and the ending? There is a large emphasis of the supernatural, spiritual, consciousness, the limits of scholars, and what we choose to believe. I guess that makes it a Kunstmärchen.

2 comments:

Tim said...

I like how you tied elements of mythology into the story, as well as linking it to the birth of Christ. My question about Zeus's children...i may be mistaken but doesn't bad things usually happen to the child or woman the god is sleeping with. For example, one of his children is born from his head. Also, i remember one story where the woman he was sleeping with wanted to see him in his true form, and died upon seeing it? Also if it is a myth, what is it trying to explain the existence of?

Allison said...

I like how you connected the story with a number of outside ideas (mythology and religion). I also saw a connection between the virgin girl who becomes impregnated by the rose and the virgin Mary. I did not view the dream/sex scene as a rape though. I read it more as them making love...a connection between nature and man. The dream was just put in place so the pregnancy was more believable because all things are possible in dreams.

Post by Allison Baschnagel from ,,The Cruel Witch''

The Vegetational Fatherhood: Fairy Tale vs. Kunstmärchen

The Vegetational Fatherhood by Mynona has a number of elements that are characteristic of fairy tales, and also a number that are characteristic of Kunstmärchen. I found that the story was similar to traditional fairy tales because of the element of transformation. “The rose transformed itself into a handsome young man…” and the daughter transforms into a rose every night during prayer time. The Vegetational Fatherhood is also like a fairy tale in that it has an element of religion. For example, at one point on page 583 Mynona writes that creatures who pick flowers and plants are sinning. Also, the mother and daughter pray together every night. I think that the fact that the daughter transforms into her rose-self during prayer time emphasizes the piety of nature.

The Vegetational Fatherhood contains a number of Kunstmärchen characteristics, as well. First of all, the roses are often personified, “This rose fixed its magic eyes…” Also there is definitely a sexual (inappropriate for children) aspect, “The rose transformed himself into a handsome young man, who embraced and enjoyed the woman…she utterly abandoned herself to him. ..Her lap was covered with rose petals, her clothes in disarray.” As discussed in class, Kunstmärchen often have a sense of irony. In the story, the mother chooses Dr. Floris Rosenberger to be his daughter’s husband. The name suggests flowers and roses, which may have been why her mother chose and trusted him for her daughter. In the end though, Dr. Rosenberger was the cause of the rose-daughter’s death. Lastly, The Vegetational Fatherhood is like a Kunstmärchen because of its tragic ending: not only does the rose-daughter get thrown off a balcony by her new husband and die, but her (somewhat) innocent husband and mother get thrown into an insane asylum.

Posted by Allison

Alex! said...

I agree with your points supporting how the story is both like a traditional fairy tale and a kuntsmarchen. Along with the transformation and religious aspects, the tale also introduces an element of enchantment and magic.

Post by Anna Fargo from ,,The Curse''

Prompt 10: The Vegetational Fatherhood

While reading The Vegetational Fatherhood, I thought the whole story was ridiculous. Now, I am able to really play with the ideas presented and can kind of see where the author is coming from. In the introduction, it is clearly stated that plants have a direct effect on humans and animals. The first section supports this claim by telling the story about a young woman who is essentially raped by a rose. The author uses language that conveys the greatness of the impact the rose has on the girl. For example, the woman tries to find the rose "involuntarily" after waking up with a weird feeling. This shows how the woman was not planning for this to happen and seems almost like a puppet in the plant's life. The daughter that is born due to this event is described as "wondrous." She doesn't talk, she is pretty, and is quite an artist...I'm thinking a typical fairy tale Beauty. Later, however, we find out that the seemingly perfect child transforms into a rosebush when praying. The mom and daughter keep this a secret and seem to be ashamed of her appearance as a shrub. When the fiance finds the rosebush and not his Beauty, he carelessly throws it to the maid and asks her to put it on display as something nice to look at during breakfast. This represents how the average human treats flowers. We pick them and never consider that they might have feelings, or a life. Personally, I understand where Mynona get this idea, but I do not think that this has to change. People enjoy looking at flowers and if we didn't pick them, they'd be overwhelming in mass! Finally, in the end of the story, the mother and fiance ("murderer") are treated as crazy people for seeing a rosebush in what others thought was obviously a human. I think this presents the typical reaction recieved when someone tries to convince another that plants have feelings just like us. I have to say, although I enjoyed reading the story through a few times, I can understand the argument, but I can't imagine actually treating plants like I treat my best friends. Overall, the author tries to convince the audience that plants and animals are very connected, my question then is why is there no apparent punishment for picking flowers?

Posted by Anna

Mallory said...

I think your interpretation of the tale is interesting- a commentary about how humans treat plants. While I can't quite grasp the meaning of this strange story, I see the author trying to convey something a little broader. Maybe Mynona was getting at the ultimate power of nature- the bride was overcome by roses each night and this transformation ulitmately led to her death....but again, I think the meaning of this tale is hard to grasp.

April 8, 2009 8:09 PM

Jasmine said...

I find your comments about the woman being the object of the gaze to be interesting. I like how you related the girl and flowers as things for display. This is an idea that was being toyed with in one of my other film classes. Here is a quote from the reading...

"They (women) are usually decorations without real reasons of being. If the men are finely fired porcelain vases, then the women are casually picked wild flowers. They are put in the vase only to complement the vessel, which remains spectacular even if the flowers are discarded." (The Mysterious Gayness in Chang Cheh's Unhappy World, Michael Lam, pg 178).

Like what you said, other tales we have read and the quote tries to say women like flowers are put on display as decorations or symbols of greater wealth, power or masculinity. Like you said. We pick them and never consider that they might have feelings, or a life. We content with the silence of the female and nature. Maybe like the active female or (wicked stepmother in the Gubar essay) the power of nature is something that we find threatening. Nature is destroyed when it decides it doesn't want to be objectified any longer. I think that my associating this story with the Gubar essay is a stretch but I agree that flowers and women share the same small space in the world of men.

Assignment 10 - 7. April 2009

For this week, read the tale The Vegetational Fatherhood and try to interpret this tale.

You could talk about the idea behind the story, the characters, the fact that it does/does not fit into the catagory ,,Kunstmärchen", the message it wants to convey/fails to, or about anything other thing that catches your attention...there are no specific expectations...you can work with this tale any way you want.